Today's Games 20.12.2015

Originally Posted by £#%&! KFC

West Ham have drawn their last three league games 0-0

even more shite to watch than us

No league win since they beat Chelsea on Oct 24. Payet's injury has £#%&!ed them over, he was a major part of their good form.

£#%&! me... why didn't valencia swing that in?

must be something in the name.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

Don't they all say it has little impact in the team. Most can't hear them, and it serves the manager to allow him to blow off nervous energy and such. Even fergie said many times that once the players passed the white line going into the pitch, there was nothing he could do, and you just had to trust them. Pretty much what van gaal says. Didn't stop him running out of the dugout on occasion in times of emotion, but he knew it made little difference. It did have a psychological impact on the viewing audience though. Van gaal's just more laid back, so doesn't need to vent any emotion.

And there were also quite a few occasions where ferguson looked lost on the bench when united were getting dicked.

Barring the very occasional slaughtering of a player, Fergie only usually emerged from the bench to have a go at the fourth official.

Fergie's approach was to often avoid reacting to setbacks. I think it was a conscious thing. Very common to see him after United go behind to be sat on his hands in the dugout. Remember it very well in Basel a few years back. It was very deliberate.

Originally Posted by TheKitchenSink

No league win since they beat Chelsea on Oct 24. Payet's injury has £#%&!ed them over, he was a major part of their good form.

jesus didn't know that

he is a good player nqat

Still just one win for Swansea since they beat us, then

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Barring the very occasional slaughtering of a player, Fergie only usually emerged from the bench to have a go at the fourth official.

Fergie's approach was to often avoid reacting to setbacks. I think it was a conscious thing. Very common to see him after United go behind to be sat on his hands in the dugout. Remember it very well in Basel a few years back. It was very deliberate.

Yeah, fergie wasn't for giving players an easy way out if they were struggling. He made them play through it and find a solution. Personal responsibility and mental strength and all that. Pretty much like van gaal. But van gaal's wrong apparently.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

Yeah, fergie wasn't for giving players an easy way out if they were struggling. He made them play through it and find a solution. Personal responsibility and mental strength and all that. Pretty much like van gaal. But van gaal's wrong apparently.

Frogson's style couldn't be more different to van gaal's.

Originally Posted by Alan

Frogson's style couldn't be more different to van gaal's.

In many ways, yes. But this is what JD and I are getting at.

The Basel humiliation:

Check Basel's second (killer) goal at 1:00 and the end of the match at 2:35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd9ypsB-BSk

Again, I always felt with Ferguson it was very deliberate not to react emotionally.

The commentator mentions that United have no control of the game. It was a mess. Yet Ferguson remained cold in his seat.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

In many ways, yes. But this is what JD and I are getting at.

The Basel humiliation:

Check Basel's second (killer) goal at 1:00 and the end of the match at 2:35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd9ypsB-BSk

Again, I always felt with Ferguson it was very deliberate not to react emotionally.

No arguments pal.

Frogson giving players freedom is exactly what van gaal doesn't do though.

'Militaristic' is the term Cruyff uses.

Originally Posted by Alan

No arguments pal.

Frogson giving players freedom is exactly what van gaal doesn't do though.

'Militaristic' is the term Cruyff uses.

Yes, he and Cruyff differ a lot on allowing excessive individuality, both on the field and in terms of specialist training.

But fact remains that Van Gaal's teams don't usually suffer from that. We've seen loads of fantastic creative players such as Bergkamp, Rivaldo, Figo, Robben, even RvP etc flourish under him, whether they liked him or not. So if it's an issue, it's an unfamiliar one.

Ferguson losing it and going mental on the sideline against Madrid at old trafford really helped IIRC


There are plenty of reasons you could find to criticise LVG but not 'standing on the sideline shouting at players'.... Jesus. You look like a fool if you use that argument because it simply has no bearing on the situation we are in.

Originally Posted by bigMikeA

Ferguson losing it and going mental on the sideline against Madrid at old trafford really helped IIRC


There are plenty of reasons you could find to criticise LVG but not 'standing on the sideline shouting at players'.... Jesus. You look like a fool if you use that argument because it simply has no bearing on the situation we are in.

Yep.

Originally Posted by bigMikeA

Ferguson losing it and going mental on the sideline against Madrid at old trafford really helped IIRC


There are plenty of reasons you could find to criticise LVG but not 'standing on the sideline shouting at players'.... Jesus. You look like a fool if you use that argument because it simply has no bearing on the situation we are in.

So if you're sitting in the dugout and you can see something on the pitch that's not being dealt with by the players, what do you do wait until half time when you might have lost a goal, or full time when it's too late? The argument against doing it too much, which i disagree with, is not to never do it at all. The manager is part of the team. Furthermore, I'd say the younger the players the more likely they could use a bit of in game advice from the side.

Originally Posted by utd99

So if you're sitting in the dugout and you can see something on the pitch that's not being dealt with by the players, what do you do wait until half time when you might have lost a goal, or full time when it's too late?

Sure, you say something. But I think this is pretty rare. The players see everything the manager sees, they have spent multiple training sessions preparing for the opponent, watched video, read dossiers in some cases, etc. When things go wrong, it's far more often a case of poor execution than anything else. There's nothing a manager can say that fixes that. I think most often when a manager is giving instruction from the touchline, he's reminding the players of things they know perfectly well.

Its probably why he loves an early/HT sub. If you're £#%&!ing it up, you get corrected at half time, if you're really £#%&!ing it up, you're off. £#%&! all point in shouting at you from the sideline if you're just being shit.

Originally Posted by Grimson

Sure, you say something. But I think this is pretty rare. The players see everything the manager sees, they have spent multiple training sessions preparing for the opponent, watched video, read dossiers in some cases, etc. When things go wrong, it's far more often a case of poor execution than anything else. There's nothing a manager can say that fixes that. I think most often when a manager is giving instruction from the touchline, he's reminding the players of things they know perfectly well.

There's also the belief that you have to help the players learn to spot patterns and find their own solutions to problems. I heard Gary Neville saying a while back how being taught buy Harrison to read the game was far better than being instructed throughout.

A manager's dream is not a team that looks to the bench for help, but one that takes on what they've learnt from meetings and knows what they're doing wrong and how to fix things. This is VG's idea, anyway. Hence him saying he wants to "train the brain, not the legs"

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

There's also the belief that you have to help the players learn to spot patterns and find their own solutions to problems. I heard Gary Neville saying a while back how being taught buy Harrison to read the game was far better than being instructed throughout.

A manager's dream is not a team that looks to the bench for help, but one that takes on what they've learnt from meetings and knows what they're doing wrong and how to fix things. This is VG's idea, anyway. Hence him saying he wants to "train the brain, not the legs"

Pity that so many of his charges are brain dead then ..

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Hard to argue that this isn't one of the biggest issues with his tenure, nqat.

His bench often consists of Young, Fellaini and some youth prospect we've never heard of, tbf.

Take that you wall-pushing, dead trampling @#%&!s.